Q&A: Muhammad Yunus

The microfinance pioneer and Nobel prize winner talks to Gines Haro Pastor about his future plans, supporting other social businesses and how the Grameen bank evolved

Gines Haro Pastor   
Guardian Professional, Friday 29 July 2011 06.00 BST

You usually use the term social business instead of social enterprise. Can you explain the difference between them?
What I was trying to do was to take [entrepreneurship] in one particular direction: turning it into creating a social business. Social business is a business, where you don't want to make money for yourself, but you solve the problem with the business model. This is different from social entrepreneurship. A social entrepreneur may not be involved in a business at all, it could be just helping your neighbourhood, improving healthcare, helping people to do that in a new way.

What will you be focusing on over the next six months?
I have been over years spending more and more time on promoting social business, setting up social business, bringing social business to courses at universities, helping design social business institutes and universities ... answering questions related with social business.

This is what I will continue to devote time to. Because now social business is spreading in many more countries – previously it was only in Bangladesh and one or two other countries – this will take up a lot of my time.

Which countries do you think are leading the way in social business and why do you think this is happening? Where is the concept of social business most developed?
One is Bangladesh. France is very interested. They have created a social business chair in a business school and they have many companies participating in social business. Its government is very much interested; we are talking of social business in the context of G20, during its presidency of G20 they want to promote the concept of social business.

Also in Japan, and Germany. The mayor of Wiesbaden, Germany, has declared the city a social business city .

What was the inspiration behind the Grameen bank?
When I began I was not thinking about creating anything, I was thinking about demonstrating something that might work. I was not looking for examples around the world. I was just thinking if I do it in this way maybe it will work. I was not thinking about creating an institution.

So I learnt by doing. I started in one way and continued in that direction. I never had a blueprint that I have to do this year this, next year that, third year this and on the fifth year that. I was always thinking that if I do one more step it will be over and everybody will be happy.

Your partnership with Danone is well known. What has been learnt from it?
It was the first time we had a partnership with a huge multinational company. Until then people where very doubtful about the social business idea. It was something that never makes any sense to business people; maybe for NGOs or some individuals, but definitely not a serious business proposition. When Danone's chairman came forward and said I would like to join with you to do a social business everyone [thought] if Danone does it, then it must be serious.

After that other companies came forward. So today it is a legitimate business and nobody questions the involvement of well-known CEOs in social business. HEC business school became interested [the school now runs a social business certificate programme], if the CEOs are doing it, our students must learn about what they are doing. So that became another subject of economic interest. Today young people are interested.

Have you ever thought about leaving Bangladesh?
I could have settled in the USA, I was there, teaching. I finished my degree there. Many like me never come back. Bangladesh's history is not a small history, there are lots of ups and downs, a lot of violence – but I have no intention of leaving the country.

Is money the problem or what we do with it?
Money is not the problem in the sense if you could make good use of it. But for many the accumulation of money has become an obsession. It is widely accepted 'the more money I have, the more successful I am'. We should not measure success with money. To me human life success should be measured with what contribution you have made in making this planet a better place. And what kind of life you have lived on this planet. Money per se is a piece of paper ... It is what you do with the money, what impact you create with the money that's important.

Many people all over the world are starting social businesses having been inspired by your work. What would you say to them?
They have enormous capacity to make an impact in the world. Pick a subject, pick a problem, design a business to solve that problem, and take it from there.

Source: www.theguardian.com